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	<title>Comments on: Inside WAA Certification: Any Questions?</title>
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	<description>Moving from a Low Accountability to a High Accountability Business Model</description>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2010/04/16/inside-waa-certification-any-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-93065</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=793#comment-93065</guid>
		<description>Thanks Patrick, looks like your first post did not have enough text to avoid my spam trap.  I added a comment to your post that hopefully clarifies some of your experience.  Mainly, that all people who Tested the Test received a sample of the Test; the Test itself is slated for 2 hours.

Also, the scores on the test have generally been on the low side, with only 3 out of 80 or so people scoring above 70 / 100.  So I don&#039;t think the test is &quot;easy&quot; and passing it does provide a valuable benchmark.

That said, as indicated above, the Test is not about implementation or other technical areas, it&#039;s about adding value on the business side.  Not all analysts / marketers are in this position or even care to be, though that is the skill WAA hiring members have asked us to test for.

In many ways, the test addresses the old &quot;reporting versus analysis&quot; question that WA people have complained about forever.  The people who pass the test are clearly capable of more than just reporting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Patrick, looks like your first post did not have enough text to avoid my spam trap.  I added a comment to your post that hopefully clarifies some of your experience.  Mainly, that all people who Tested the Test received a sample of the Test; the Test itself is slated for 2 hours.</p>
<p>Also, the scores on the test have generally been on the low side, with only 3 out of 80 or so people scoring above 70 / 100.  So I don&#8217;t think the test is &#8220;easy&#8221; and passing it does provide a valuable benchmark.</p>
<p>That said, as indicated above, the Test is not about implementation or other technical areas, it&#8217;s about adding value on the business side.  Not all analysts / marketers are in this position or even care to be, though that is the skill WAA hiring members have asked us to test for.</p>
<p>In many ways, the test addresses the old &#8220;reporting versus analysis&#8221; question that WA people have complained about forever.  The people who pass the test are clearly capable of more than just reporting.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Mazzotta</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2010/04/16/inside-waa-certification-any-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-93048</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Mazzotta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=793#comment-93048</guid>
		<description>I did a write up of my experience on my blog: http://pmazzotta.com/?p=23

Sorry if this is a re-post; I didn&#039;t see my last attempt in the comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did a write up of my experience on my blog: <a href="http://pmazzotta.com/?p=23" rel="nofollow">http://pmazzotta.com/?p=23</a></p>
<p>Sorry if this is a re-post; I didn&#8217;t see my last attempt in the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Emer Kirrane</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2010/04/16/inside-waa-certification-any-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-92869</link>
		<dc:creator>Emer Kirrane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=793#comment-92869</guid>
		<description>Thanks Jim - I&#039;ll keep my cert dusted and keep my ears open :)
Cheers,
E</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jim &#8211; I&#8217;ll keep my cert dusted and keep my ears open :)<br />
Cheers,<br />
E</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2010/04/16/inside-waa-certification-any-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-92868</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=793#comment-92868</guid>
		<description>The UBC Courses are not going away!  They are an optional part of the path to Certification, the &quot;book learning&quot; part, the basics people need to know.  That knowledge, whether gained from the Courses or other sources, plus experience = ready for Certification.

Regarding access, you won&#039;t have to go to an eMetrics to take the Exam, there will be testing centers worldwide beginning this summer.  We are awaiting those rollout details from the provider.

Thanks for keeping the conversation going!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The UBC Courses are not going away!  They are an optional part of the path to Certification, the &#8220;book learning&#8221; part, the basics people need to know.  That knowledge, whether gained from the Courses or other sources, plus experience = ready for Certification.</p>
<p>Regarding access, you won&#8217;t have to go to an eMetrics to take the Exam, there will be testing centers worldwide beginning this summer.  We are awaiting those rollout details from the provider.</p>
<p>Thanks for keeping the conversation going!</p>
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		<title>By: Emer Kirrane</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2010/04/16/inside-waa-certification-any-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-92867</link>
		<dc:creator>Emer Kirrane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 14:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=793#comment-92867</guid>
		<description>Hi Jim,
Thanks for your response!  I want to make clear that I&#039;m not out-and-out bashing the certification - I&#039;ve been looking forward to its release for a couple of years and I know a huge amount of work has gone into it.

From my own personal perspective, I&#039;m vaguely concerned by the risk of the certification undermining the value of the WAA-connected UBC course (which I recently completed).  I had thought that there would be a building-block element.  I.e. 1) do the course, 2) get experience 3) get certification - but there seems to be a disconnect somehow.  How likely is it that the course will eventually be abandoned in favour of the certification?  If not, great - this is just a gut reaction (by the way, all 2009 graduates are eagerly awaiting the announcement of the winner of The Jim Novo :) )

As for the price, I agree that a cheap online test is likely to be valued less than a proctored exam - I just know that I won&#039;t be able to take it for the forseeable.  I could possibly swing the certification price, but not the travel to take it.  

I&#039;ll be staying closely tuned to the progress of the certification process in general.  
Cheers,
E</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jim,<br />
Thanks for your response!  I want to make clear that I&#8217;m not out-and-out bashing the certification &#8211; I&#8217;ve been looking forward to its release for a couple of years and I know a huge amount of work has gone into it.</p>
<p>From my own personal perspective, I&#8217;m vaguely concerned by the risk of the certification undermining the value of the WAA-connected UBC course (which I recently completed).  I had thought that there would be a building-block element.  I.e. 1) do the course, 2) get experience 3) get certification &#8211; but there seems to be a disconnect somehow.  How likely is it that the course will eventually be abandoned in favour of the certification?  If not, great &#8211; this is just a gut reaction (by the way, all 2009 graduates are eagerly awaiting the announcement of the winner of The Jim Novo :) )</p>
<p>As for the price, I agree that a cheap online test is likely to be valued less than a proctored exam &#8211; I just know that I won&#8217;t be able to take it for the forseeable.  I could possibly swing the certification price, but not the travel to take it.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be staying closely tuned to the progress of the certification process in general.<br />
Cheers,<br />
E</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2010/04/16/inside-waa-certification-any-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-92622</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=793#comment-92622</guid>
		<description>Wanted to answer questions appearing elsewhere not already answered above:

You won&#039;t have to pay an eMetrics attendance fee to take the Tests offered at eMetrics Summit locations; eMetrics is simply providing the physical facility.  We have already tried this out on Tests of the Test, where people are issued &quot;Exhibit Hall Only&quot; passes so they can get to the Test room.  There may be a small room fee in certain locations, depending on whether eMetrics can acquire the Test space as part of their overall contract or not.

You don&#039;t have to re-certify every 2 years, you have 2 years to pass. After that there are maintenance activities like most Certifications, but you don&#039;t have to take the Test again unless you let the Certification expire after two years.  Maintenance activities = primarily continuing education opportunities active analysts would probably be involved with anyway - courses, conferences, other Certifications.

Regarding the in-person testing versus an online test, I think many folks might have a watered-down view of what a Certification is since so many web-related Certifications are available online.  But the WAA is following the approach used by established, ANSI / ISO / IEC  compliant certification providers.  Over the long run, in-person testing is the right decision because even though it slows the rollout, it creates more value.  Long term versus short term consideration, sorry we can&#039;t test in-person everywhere in the world tomorrow!

Sure, there was a choice to be made between an online and in-person Test.  But if you research the market, you find hiring managers generally don&#039;t trust online certification tests because the security is so easy to defeat (say, using a phone).  And when thinking about this, you should take into account what the WAA is  testing for in the exam: analytical skills that will be used to make important financial, even strategic decisions.

As a hiring manager, you would want to be very sure this person who could be influencing a $100,000 call is in fact the person who took the Test. Online Certification tests are absolutely fine for some areas and job responsibilities, but for example, lawyers and accountants have to take an in-person test.  So do candidates for PMP, CBAP, CBIP, etc.

The bottom line is how much value does the WAA want to create for the people passing the Certification; do we want it be a trusted badge of skills being tested?  Or subject to the same kind of doubt online tests are?  Do you want a &quot;free&quot; or cheap WAA Certification that is worth exactly that, or do you want one that will create real value during the hiring process because hiring people know, without a shadow of a doubt, that you were in fact the person who passed the Test?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wanted to answer questions appearing elsewhere not already answered above:</p>
<p>You won&#8217;t have to pay an eMetrics attendance fee to take the Tests offered at eMetrics Summit locations; eMetrics is simply providing the physical facility.  We have already tried this out on Tests of the Test, where people are issued &#8220;Exhibit Hall Only&#8221; passes so they can get to the Test room.  There may be a small room fee in certain locations, depending on whether eMetrics can acquire the Test space as part of their overall contract or not.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t have to re-certify every 2 years, you have 2 years to pass. After that there are maintenance activities like most Certifications, but you don&#8217;t have to take the Test again unless you let the Certification expire after two years.  Maintenance activities = primarily continuing education opportunities active analysts would probably be involved with anyway &#8211; courses, conferences, other Certifications.</p>
<p>Regarding the in-person testing versus an online test, I think many folks might have a watered-down view of what a Certification is since so many web-related Certifications are available online.  But the WAA is following the approach used by established, ANSI / ISO / IEC  compliant certification providers.  Over the long run, in-person testing is the right decision because even though it slows the rollout, it creates more value.  Long term versus short term consideration, sorry we can&#8217;t test in-person everywhere in the world tomorrow!</p>
<p>Sure, there was a choice to be made between an online and in-person Test.  But if you research the market, you find hiring managers generally don&#8217;t trust online certification tests because the security is so easy to defeat (say, using a phone).  And when thinking about this, you should take into account what the WAA is  testing for in the exam: analytical skills that will be used to make important financial, even strategic decisions.</p>
<p>As a hiring manager, you would want to be very sure this person who could be influencing a $100,000 call is in fact the person who took the Test. Online Certification tests are absolutely fine for some areas and job responsibilities, but for example, lawyers and accountants have to take an in-person test.  So do candidates for PMP, CBAP, CBIP, etc.</p>
<p>The bottom line is how much value does the WAA want to create for the people passing the Certification; do we want it be a trusted badge of skills being tested?  Or subject to the same kind of doubt online tests are?  Do you want a &#8220;free&#8221; or cheap WAA Certification that is worth exactly that, or do you want one that will create real value during the hiring process because hiring people know, without a shadow of a doubt, that you were in fact the person who passed the Test?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2010/04/16/inside-waa-certification-any-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-92619</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=793#comment-92619</guid>
		<description>Hi Deric, thanks for the question.  The initial rollout of the Exam will be  through the eMetrics Summit events, which now take place in nine countries in different regions of the world.  But the WAA also has a relationship with a test center operator managing about 170 locations in North America and additional locations around the world.  As these centers become available the WAA will provide a listing of their locations.  We hope the rollout to the test centers will begin this summer.

The WAA Certification will be offered as a proctored in-person exam,  because we want the hiring company to be confident the person applying for the job is the same person who passed the Certification Test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Deric, thanks for the question.  The initial rollout of the Exam will be  through the eMetrics Summit events, which now take place in nine countries in different regions of the world.  But the WAA also has a relationship with a test center operator managing about 170 locations in North America and additional locations around the world.  As these centers become available the WAA will provide a listing of their locations.  We hope the rollout to the test centers will begin this summer.</p>
<p>The WAA Certification will be offered as a proctored in-person exam,  because we want the hiring company to be confident the person applying for the job is the same person who passed the Certification Test.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Deric Loh</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2010/04/16/inside-waa-certification-any-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-92605</link>
		<dc:creator>Deric Loh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 07:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=793#comment-92605</guid>
		<description>Hi Jim,

From what I understand as per the following info listed on WAA:

&quot;Applicants must pass the WAA certification exam in order to be certified. Paper-and-pencil examinations will be administered at eMetrics Marketing Optimization Summits&quot;

Would the WAA certification exam also be made available else where around the world other than taking the test only during eMetrics Marketing Optimization Summits ? It would be beneficial for other individuals whom are interested in taking the certification either through online, partnership exams center elsewhere in the rest of the world.

Cheers,
Deric</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jim,</p>
<p>From what I understand as per the following info listed on WAA:</p>
<p>&#8220;Applicants must pass the WAA certification exam in order to be certified. Paper-and-pencil examinations will be administered at eMetrics Marketing Optimization Summits&#8221;</p>
<p>Would the WAA certification exam also be made available else where around the world other than taking the test only during eMetrics Marketing Optimization Summits ? It would be beneficial for other individuals whom are interested in taking the certification either through online, partnership exams center elsewhere in the rest of the world.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Deric</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2010/04/16/inside-waa-certification-any-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-92581</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 22:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=793#comment-92581</guid>
		<description>The pricing came out of two places: the cost of the software / administration of the Test, and a comparison to certification test pricing in similar topic areas.  The software generates unique versions of the Test, provides capability for remote interface with testing centers, and tracks all the back-end statistics on questions and scoring for analysis and compliance with Certification Test maintenance standards.

At $635, the Certification Test price is less than one of the UBC courses.  If you&#039;re not a WAA member, the price is higher ($795), but you don&#039;t have to be a WAA member to take the Test.

By &quot;apply&quot; and &quot;assessed&quot; I take it you mean the Eligibility Requirements to take the Test?  The WAA may not be an educational institution but as far as the educational component goes, we try to follow established best practices in the area.  So, for example, the UBC Courses conform to  standards from the Education world.  Likewise, the WAA Certification follows standards created by governing bodies in the Certification world, with Eligibility Requirements being such a standard.

So while anybody can offer a test called &quot;Certification&quot; on any topic you can think of, if the program ever hopes to be officially recognized by ISO and other governing bodies (as is, for example, the PMI&#039;s PMP) then you have to follow standards.  To take the PMP, you need a certain level of education and experience, and it&#039;s the same for WAA Certification.

That said, substitutions for the stated Eligibility Requirements are allowed based on unique education or work background.

Hope the above answered your questions!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The pricing came out of two places: the cost of the software / administration of the Test, and a comparison to certification test pricing in similar topic areas.  The software generates unique versions of the Test, provides capability for remote interface with testing centers, and tracks all the back-end statistics on questions and scoring for analysis and compliance with Certification Test maintenance standards.</p>
<p>At $635, the Certification Test price is less than one of the UBC courses.  If you&#8217;re not a WAA member, the price is higher ($795), but you don&#8217;t have to be a WAA member to take the Test.</p>
<p>By &#8220;apply&#8221; and &#8220;assessed&#8221; I take it you mean the Eligibility Requirements to take the Test?  The WAA may not be an educational institution but as far as the educational component goes, we try to follow established best practices in the area.  So, for example, the UBC Courses conform to  standards from the Education world.  Likewise, the WAA Certification follows standards created by governing bodies in the Certification world, with Eligibility Requirements being such a standard.</p>
<p>So while anybody can offer a test called &#8220;Certification&#8221; on any topic you can think of, if the program ever hopes to be officially recognized by ISO and other governing bodies (as is, for example, the PMI&#8217;s PMP) then you have to follow standards.  To take the PMP, you need a certain level of education and experience, and it&#8217;s the same for WAA Certification.</p>
<p>That said, substitutions for the stated Eligibility Requirements are allowed based on unique education or work background.</p>
<p>Hope the above answered your questions!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Emer Kirrane</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2010/04/16/inside-waa-certification-any-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-92570</link>
		<dc:creator>Emer Kirrane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 19:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=793#comment-92570</guid>
		<description>Hi Jim,
I&#039;m very curious about the WAA test.  I&#039;d love to know how the price point came about.  I understand that the perceived value of a $20 dollar test would undermine the whole endeavour, but how did an amount that well exceeds a full UBC course module come about?  

Also, I understand from the FAQs that one must apply to take the test in the first place.  Is this part of adding to the perceived value of the test?  If WAA was an educational body, I could understand this.  I don&#039;t have to be assessed to join the WAA, why must I be assessed to do the WAA certification - I just don&#039;t understand this element when it&#039;s a single test and not connected to any course.

I&#039;m very interested in learning more about the certification and how it&#039;s viewed by the community going forward.  Having done the UBC course and looked at the sample questions and everything I can find about the test, I&#039;m intrigued.

Cheers,

E</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jim,<br />
I&#8217;m very curious about the WAA test.  I&#8217;d love to know how the price point came about.  I understand that the perceived value of a $20 dollar test would undermine the whole endeavour, but how did an amount that well exceeds a full UBC course module come about?  </p>
<p>Also, I understand from the FAQs that one must apply to take the test in the first place.  Is this part of adding to the perceived value of the test?  If WAA was an educational body, I could understand this.  I don&#8217;t have to be assessed to join the WAA, why must I be assessed to do the WAA certification &#8211; I just don&#8217;t understand this element when it&#8217;s a single test and not connected to any course.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m very interested in learning more about the certification and how it&#8217;s viewed by the community going forward.  Having done the UBC course and looked at the sample questions and everything I can find about the test, I&#8217;m intrigued.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>E</p>
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