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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;X Month&#8221; Value</title>
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	<description>Moving from a Low Accountability to a High Accountability Business Model</description>
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		<title>By: Josh Kerbel</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2009/11/20/x-month-value/comment-page-1/#comment-100529</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Kerbel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=524#comment-100529</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Where Financing and Marketing Meet...&lt;/strong&gt;

AKA You need to know how much a customer is worth in order to determine how much to spend to acquire them&#8230;&#8230; As mentioned by both Jim Novo and Seth Godin in there posts regarding the lifetime value of a customer, you need to know how much ca...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Where Financing and Marketing Meet&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>AKA You need to know how much a customer is worth in order to determine how much to spend to acquire them&#8230;&#8230; As mentioned by both Jim Novo and Seth Godin in there posts regarding the lifetime value of a customer, you need to know how much ca&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2009/11/20/x-month-value/comment-page-1/#comment-82150</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=524#comment-82150</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know about partner sites but it seems like a &quot;real&quot; partner would be willing to prove their incrementality.

Paid search you can (hopefully) invoke geo-controls and get close.

Display you can use geo-control and / or swap out non-profit ads as control - wish Google would allow this on PPC &#039;cause it would clear up some questions on paid search incrementality.

Leaving organic search...which I would consider more operational and not really a marketing issue.  It just makes sense to design for findability, and is more appropriately judged on volume for payback, I think.  In my view, organic demand is the &quot;base&quot; and everything else should be incremental to this organic demand.

So yea, it can get complex, but you don&#039;t need a marketing mix or other sophisticated model to get an idea of where the incremental lies.  However, it does take some coporate &quot;stamina&quot; to not walk all over other people&#039;s controls and so forth.

Which leads back to the whole culture issue, and needing a desire to level the playing field, so everyone competes for resources based on universal success measurement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know about partner sites but it seems like a &#8220;real&#8221; partner would be willing to prove their incrementality.</p>
<p>Paid search you can (hopefully) invoke geo-controls and get close.</p>
<p>Display you can use geo-control and / or swap out non-profit ads as control &#8211; wish Google would allow this on PPC &#8217;cause it would clear up some questions on paid search incrementality.</p>
<p>Leaving organic search&#8230;which I would consider more operational and not really a marketing issue.  It just makes sense to design for findability, and is more appropriately judged on volume for payback, I think.  In my view, organic demand is the &#8220;base&#8221; and everything else should be incremental to this organic demand.</p>
<p>So yea, it can get complex, but you don&#8217;t need a marketing mix or other sophisticated model to get an idea of where the incremental lies.  However, it does take some coporate &#8220;stamina&#8221; to not walk all over other people&#8217;s controls and so forth.</p>
<p>Which leads back to the whole culture issue, and needing a desire to level the playing field, so everyone competes for resources based on universal success measurement.</p>
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		<title>By: Domaz</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2009/11/20/x-month-value/comment-page-1/#comment-82142</link>
		<dc:creator>Domaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=524#comment-82142</guid>
		<description>Totally agree on the control groups. Totally myopic not to use them if it&#039;s an option. However, if you&#039;re acquiring new users through search engines or other partner websites test and control set-ups aren&#039;t always available. Then you&#039;re obliged to model how incremental these are and that can get tough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally agree on the control groups. Totally myopic not to use them if it&#8217;s an option. However, if you&#8217;re acquiring new users through search engines or other partner websites test and control set-ups aren&#8217;t always available. Then you&#8217;re obliged to model how incremental these are and that can get tough.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2009/11/20/x-month-value/comment-page-1/#comment-82128</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=524#comment-82128</guid>
		<description>Domaz, agreed. 

Which is why I suggested using control groups (or control geo-markets if you can&#039;t identify the population) and a scoring system to execute this plan; the effort has to be measured correctly.

Here is another link to control groups info:

http://blog.jimnovo.com/control-group-series/

and the scoring system:

http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/04/25/engagement-customers/

I&#039;ve never understood why people seem to think using control groups is &quot;hard&quot;; the execution is simply not that difficult.  So, any problems one might have are probably more political / cultural.

The CFO can drive a move to universal success measurement like this simply by insisting budget releases be tied to universal measurement.

Analysts too can drive this change though the process will be slower.  Find the people who have enough guts to be measured as the CFO would measure them and run some tests to hone the process, working the use of controls up gradually into major campaigns.  Then start laying the results of controlled tests on the table.  This is the approach a &lt;a href=&quot;http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2009/12/preview-copy-of-my-new-book.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Linchpin would take&lt;/a&gt;.

Trust me, given a choice between releasing additional budget to areas with controlled test results versus any other proofs, the CFO will pick the people using the control groups every time.

Which then begs the question from the CFO: why isn&#039;t everyone else using control groups?  And that&#039;s how you get to universal success measurement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Domaz, agreed. </p>
<p>Which is why I suggested using control groups (or control geo-markets if you can&#8217;t identify the population) and a scoring system to execute this plan; the effort has to be measured correctly.</p>
<p>Here is another link to control groups info:</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.jimnovo.com/control-group-series/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.jimnovo.com/control-group-series/</a></p>
<p>and the scoring system:</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/04/25/engagement-customers/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/04/25/engagement-customers/</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never understood why people seem to think using control groups is &#8220;hard&#8221;; the execution is simply not that difficult.  So, any problems one might have are probably more political / cultural.</p>
<p>The CFO can drive a move to universal success measurement like this simply by insisting budget releases be tied to universal measurement.</p>
<p>Analysts too can drive this change though the process will be slower.  Find the people who have enough guts to be measured as the CFO would measure them and run some tests to hone the process, working the use of controls up gradually into major campaigns.  Then start laying the results of controlled tests on the table.  This is the approach a <a href="http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2009/12/preview-copy-of-my-new-book.html" rel="nofollow">Linchpin would take</a>.</p>
<p>Trust me, given a choice between releasing additional budget to areas with controlled test results versus any other proofs, the CFO will pick the people using the control groups every time.</p>
<p>Which then begs the question from the CFO: why isn&#8217;t everyone else using control groups?  And that&#8217;s how you get to universal success measurement.</p>
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		<title>By: Domaz</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2009/11/20/x-month-value/comment-page-1/#comment-82112</link>
		<dc:creator>Domaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 08:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=524#comment-82112</guid>
		<description>Hi, great article but I think there&#039;s one factor that&#039;s not mentioned. For some large companies, I&#039;m thinking particularly telecoms and retail or gaming websites, organic user acquisition is high. This means that in effect that a paid acquisition is not merely a binary we-got-them-or-we-didn&#039;t value and likewise our $2,500 can&#039;t be taken as the full incremental amount. Given how hard it is to accurately calculate how incremental these events are, does this not make the &quot;Why would you not spend $50?&quot; a great deal more complex?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, great article but I think there&#8217;s one factor that&#8217;s not mentioned. For some large companies, I&#8217;m thinking particularly telecoms and retail or gaming websites, organic user acquisition is high. This means that in effect that a paid acquisition is not merely a binary we-got-them-or-we-didn&#8217;t value and likewise our $2,500 can&#8217;t be taken as the full incremental amount. Given how hard it is to accurately calculate how incremental these events are, does this not make the &#8220;Why would you not spend $50?&#8221; a great deal more complex?</p>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2009/11/20/x-month-value/comment-page-1/#comment-81140</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=524#comment-81140</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by contactjr: Justify your #marketing budget based on expected customer value over a relatistic period http://icio.us/jop15h...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by contactjr: Justify your #marketing budget based on expected customer value over a relatistic period <a href="http://icio.us/jop15h..." rel="nofollow">http://icio.us/jop15h&#8230;</a></p>
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