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	<title>Comments on: Peak Engagement (Band 5)</title>
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	<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/22/peak-engagement/</link>
	<description>Moving from a Low Accountability to a High Accountability Business Model</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Reach Machines &#187; How Engagement Should Be Measured</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/22/peak-engagement/#comment-47898</link>
		<dc:creator>Reach Machines &#187; How Engagement Should Be Measured</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=231#comment-47898</guid>
		<description>[...] Comment on Peak Engagement (Band 5) by The Future of Web Analytics &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Comment on Peak Engagement (Band 5) by The Future of Web Analytics &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Business blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Comment on Peak Engagement (Band 5) by The Future of Web Analytics &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/22/peak-engagement/#comment-47831</link>
		<dc:creator>Business blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Comment on Peak Engagement (Band 5) by The Future of Web Analytics &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=231#comment-47831</guid>
		<description>[...] Read the rest of this great post here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read the rest of this great post here [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Future of Web Analytics, Demystified &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Responding to Jim Novo&#8217;s 12 Jul 08 9:40am comment</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/22/peak-engagement/#comment-47820</link>
		<dc:creator>The Future of Web Analytics, Demystified &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Responding to Jim Novo&#8217;s 12 Jul 08 9:40am comment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=231#comment-47820</guid>
		<description>[...] agreement because I think the devil might be in the details on this one (something I hinted at in my comment to your http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/22/peak-engagement/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] agreement because I think the devil might be in the details on this one (something I hinted at in my comment to your <a href="http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/22/peak-engagement/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/22/peak-engagement/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/22/peak-engagement/#comment-47720</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=231#comment-47720</guid>
		<description>Welcome, Joseph!

Heuristic modeling?  Not to my knowledge, but I didn't build the models.  My job was to interpret the results and translate them into Marketing action.

I don't know how to answer about Simplicity; this is definitely the most complex "Band" due to the need for modeling - if you take it to this level.

However, what I think people often miss is you can get about 80% of the way to what is represented here with MUCH simpler models.  After all, the FIPS model was the culmination of about 6 years worth of test activity, most of it done with very simple behavioral models.  

In fact, it was the extensive data set created by using the simple models (Recency - Frequency) that facilitated the creation of the FIPS model.  We already knew from prior testing that Recency was hugely predictive for Interactive.  So FIPS was really about "just how could can we get at this?"

On the last regarding "world size", I think the question is above my pay grade, if I understand it.  My understanding has always been that the advanced predictive models (FIPS) work much better with larger data sets.  If you're talking about simple models like Recency, they work well with small data sets.  So my impression was the more advanced the model, the more data it needed, with machine intelligence / data mining requiring the largest data sets of all to produce actionable insight.

But like I said, I don't actually create any models above the RF level, which requires only simple counting.  I just translate the model output into money!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome, Joseph!</p>
<p>Heuristic modeling?  Not to my knowledge, but I didn&#8217;t build the models.  My job was to interpret the results and translate them into Marketing action.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how to answer about Simplicity; this is definitely the most complex &#8220;Band&#8221; due to the need for modeling - if you take it to this level.</p>
<p>However, what I think people often miss is you can get about 80% of the way to what is represented here with MUCH simpler models.  After all, the FIPS model was the culmination of about 6 years worth of test activity, most of it done with very simple behavioral models.  </p>
<p>In fact, it was the extensive data set created by using the simple models (Recency - Frequency) that facilitated the creation of the FIPS model.  We already knew from prior testing that Recency was hugely predictive for Interactive.  So FIPS was really about &#8220;just how could can we get at this?&#8221;</p>
<p>On the last regarding &#8220;world size&#8221;, I think the question is above my pay grade, if I understand it.  My understanding has always been that the advanced predictive models (FIPS) work much better with larger data sets.  If you&#8217;re talking about simple models like Recency, they work well with small data sets.  So my impression was the more advanced the model, the more data it needed, with machine intelligence / data mining requiring the largest data sets of all to produce actionable insight.</p>
<p>But like I said, I don&#8217;t actually create any models above the RF level, which requires only simple counting.  I just translate the model output into money!</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Carrabis</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/22/peak-engagement/#comment-47677</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Carrabis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=231#comment-47677</guid>
		<description>Howdy,
I'm getting to this as I'm responding to one of your TheFutureOf comments.
Very impressive, Jim. Truly and sincerely. Did you folks use any heuristic modeling? Based solely on what you've written here I wonder if that could have saved a few cycles.
Also (and offered tongue-in-cheek) doesn't this post resile your comments elsewhere about simplicity? I mean, I believe I can follow what you've written and I love the recurrent research modeling (especially the statements about some tests failing financially but leading to joy elsewhere, ahem) and the comments of others here indicate some might argue what is described isn't simple.
Last thought; how small a world would this method work with, do you think? Lots of effects that become hidden due to scale become monsters with smaller data sets. Just curious.
And thanks for the excellent post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howdy,<br />
I&#8217;m getting to this as I&#8217;m responding to one of your TheFutureOf comments.<br />
Very impressive, Jim. Truly and sincerely. Did you folks use any heuristic modeling? Based solely on what you&#8217;ve written here I wonder if that could have saved a few cycles.<br />
Also (and offered tongue-in-cheek) doesn&#8217;t this post resile your comments elsewhere about simplicity? I mean, I believe I can follow what you&#8217;ve written and I love the recurrent research modeling (especially the statements about some tests failing financially but leading to joy elsewhere, ahem) and the comments of others here indicate some might argue what is described isn&#8217;t simple.<br />
Last thought; how small a world would this method work with, do you think? Lots of effects that become hidden due to scale become monsters with smaller data sets. Just curious.<br />
And thanks for the excellent post.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/22/peak-engagement/#comment-28877</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=231#comment-28877</guid>
		<description>Moe - glad you're finding value in this series!

That's an awesome question and I can answer it a couple of ways.

If we're talking strictly Marketing (including Mail Order) budget of about $15 million, prior to the Optimization, 50% of that was spent on Band 1, 5% in Band 2, none in Band 3, 25% in Band 4, none in Band 5, 20% in Bands 6 - 8.  This analysis ignores outlier years; one early year we spent $50 million on testing mass media alone &lt;a href="http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/11/optimizing-marketing-bands/" rel="nofollow"&gt;that didn't work&lt;/a&gt;, excluded this spend for a fair comparison.

After the Optimization, 3% in Band 1, 7% in Band 2, none in Band 3, 75% in Band 4, 10% in Band 5, 5% in Bands 6 - 8.  It's worth reminding here that the ROMI in Band 5 was much higher than in Band 4, but the volume lower.  We were constantly looking to reallocate funds out of Band 4 into Band 5, but you have to find the opportunities first - test, test, test.

The shift in spend above, from the "Front End" (Bands 1 - 2) to the "Back End" (Bands 4 - 5) is why this topic is so important.  

Interactivity, the Pull, really changes where you should focus spend.  Dollar for dollar, Interactivity is great for acquiring customers, tends to suck at retaining them, hence the shift in the allocations above after Optimization.  It's worth saying that this is somewhat opposite of the traditional Mail Order (Push) model, where dollar for dollar acquiring customers is very costly but keeping them not as challenging, all else equal.  For example, in a pure web customer database you will often see 70% - 80% 1x buyers; in a pure catalog database it's more like 40% - 50%, both stats depending of course on how good the Marketers are :O.

Now, if you are talking "company" budget, then you get a different picture because of all the Infrastructure costs related to Band 3.  I have no idea how many hours were spent on the development of the systems to support &lt;a href="http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/12/optimizing-the-interface/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Optimizing the Interface&lt;/a&gt;, but a lot of IT work went into that.  A lot of Research &#038; Analysis work went into optimizing Bands 4 and 5.  Both efforts primarily labor cost.

Sometimes, as in the case of &lt;a href="http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/03/09/nice-to-new-customers/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Nice to New Customers&lt;/a&gt;, Marketing felt so strongly about the idea we paid for the costs incurred by other departments to execute (and I was ultimately proven wrong on this one - another example of why Interactivity is different).  We also engaged in various kinds of internal resource Barter, especially with IT, to get things done.

Not included in Band 2 above are Affiliate fees, because we had contractual obligations to pay commissions on sales for cable distribution.  This was non-controllable variable cost so I didn't include these costs above because they could not be Optimized.  However, many Marketing programs done with these Affiliates could be Optimized and those costs are included above.  This particular Affiliate model doesn't have a great correlation with a web scenario, unless the web model relies solely on affiliates or platforms like Amazon or eBay to make sales, in which case you have a pretty similar situation.

Did that answer your question?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moe - glad you&#8217;re finding value in this series!</p>
<p>That&#8217;s an awesome question and I can answer it a couple of ways.</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re talking strictly Marketing (including Mail Order) budget of about $15 million, prior to the Optimization, 50% of that was spent on Band 1, 5% in Band 2, none in Band 3, 25% in Band 4, none in Band 5, 20% in Bands 6 - 8.  This analysis ignores outlier years; one early year we spent $50 million on testing mass media alone <a href="http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/11/optimizing-marketing-bands/" rel="nofollow">that didn&#8217;t work</a>, excluded this spend for a fair comparison.</p>
<p>After the Optimization, 3% in Band 1, 7% in Band 2, none in Band 3, 75% in Band 4, 10% in Band 5, 5% in Bands 6 - 8.  It&#8217;s worth reminding here that the ROMI in Band 5 was much higher than in Band 4, but the volume lower.  We were constantly looking to reallocate funds out of Band 4 into Band 5, but you have to find the opportunities first - test, test, test.</p>
<p>The shift in spend above, from the &#8220;Front End&#8221; (Bands 1 - 2) to the &#8220;Back End&#8221; (Bands 4 - 5) is why this topic is so important.  </p>
<p>Interactivity, the Pull, really changes where you should focus spend.  Dollar for dollar, Interactivity is great for acquiring customers, tends to suck at retaining them, hence the shift in the allocations above after Optimization.  It&#8217;s worth saying that this is somewhat opposite of the traditional Mail Order (Push) model, where dollar for dollar acquiring customers is very costly but keeping them not as challenging, all else equal.  For example, in a pure web customer database you will often see 70% - 80% 1x buyers; in a pure catalog database it&#8217;s more like 40% - 50%, both stats depending of course on how good the Marketers are :O.</p>
<p>Now, if you are talking &#8220;company&#8221; budget, then you get a different picture because of all the Infrastructure costs related to Band 3.  I have no idea how many hours were spent on the development of the systems to support <a href="http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/12/optimizing-the-interface/" rel="nofollow">Optimizing the Interface</a>, but a lot of IT work went into that.  A lot of Research &#038; Analysis work went into optimizing Bands 4 and 5.  Both efforts primarily labor cost.</p>
<p>Sometimes, as in the case of <a href="http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/03/09/nice-to-new-customers/" rel="nofollow">Nice to New Customers</a>, Marketing felt so strongly about the idea we paid for the costs incurred by other departments to execute (and I was ultimately proven wrong on this one - another example of why Interactivity is different).  We also engaged in various kinds of internal resource Barter, especially with IT, to get things done.</p>
<p>Not included in Band 2 above are Affiliate fees, because we had contractual obligations to pay commissions on sales for cable distribution.  This was non-controllable variable cost so I didn&#8217;t include these costs above because they could not be Optimized.  However, many Marketing programs done with these Affiliates could be Optimized and those costs are included above.  This particular Affiliate model doesn&#8217;t have a great correlation with a web scenario, unless the web model relies solely on affiliates or platforms like Amazon or eBay to make sales, in which case you have a pretty similar situation.</p>
<p>Did that answer your question?</p>
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		<title>By: Moe</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/22/peak-engagement/#comment-28800</link>
		<dc:creator>Moe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=231#comment-28800</guid>
		<description>Jim,
Thanks for giving us such an up close and personal look into the HSN world of marketing. Truly insightful and very clearly communicated.
There's alot to think about here and I may have more questions later. 

For now though, I'm kind of curious about what the beginning and end state looked like in terms of the proportion of the total marketing budget that was allocated to push and pull. How much of a re-allocation did you go through?
Thanks again, 
Moe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,<br />
Thanks for giving us such an up close and personal look into the HSN world of marketing. Truly insightful and very clearly communicated.<br />
There&#8217;s alot to think about here and I may have more questions later. </p>
<p>For now though, I&#8217;m kind of curious about what the beginning and end state looked like in terms of the proportion of the total marketing budget that was allocated to push and pull. How much of a re-allocation did you go through?<br />
Thanks again,<br />
Moe</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/22/peak-engagement/#comment-28274</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 23:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=231#comment-28274</guid>
		<description>Steve - Yes, well, it may take some brains exploding to get there...

The first step to doing any of this is to redefine what Marketing is and what Marketing people are responsible for.  It's rarely the customer's fault, in my view.  People just don't know how or where to look for &lt;a href="http://blog.jimnovo.com/2006/12/31/root_cause/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Root Cause&lt;/a&gt;.

I keep saying that the web site team is a prototype for this kind of business success, and I really think it is - testing oriented, looking for Root Cause, Six-Sigma / cross-functional SWAT, Failure is a Learning Experience, all of that.  You see the same type of work I provided in this example with a lot of the great web teams.

The question is: when will they cross over and do the Optimize thing for the Enterprise?  That's a Business SWAT team I want to have working on the whole damn thing.

If they have to end up working for the Chief Customer Officer because Marketing "doesn't get it", so be it...but that would be a shame, in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve - Yes, well, it may take some brains exploding to get there&#8230;</p>
<p>The first step to doing any of this is to redefine what Marketing is and what Marketing people are responsible for.  It&#8217;s rarely the customer&#8217;s fault, in my view.  People just don&#8217;t know how or where to look for <a href="http://blog.jimnovo.com/2006/12/31/root_cause/" rel="nofollow">Root Cause</a>.</p>
<p>I keep saying that the web site team is a prototype for this kind of business success, and I really think it is - testing oriented, looking for Root Cause, Six-Sigma / cross-functional SWAT, Failure is a Learning Experience, all of that.  You see the same type of work I provided in this example with a lot of the great web teams.</p>
<p>The question is: when will they cross over and do the Optimize thing for the Enterprise?  That&#8217;s a Business SWAT team I want to have working on the whole damn thing.</p>
<p>If they have to end up working for the Chief Customer Officer because Marketing &#8220;doesn&#8217;t get it&#8221;, so be it&#8230;but that would be a shame, in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2008/06/22/peak-engagement/#comment-28267</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/?p=231#comment-28267</guid>
		<description>I think my brain is about to explode. :-)
Talk about shoving me well and truly outside my comfort zone!

What I find most... fascinating is the honest and hence *hard*, appraisal that "you" were somehow failing the customer. Bad products, misleading copy etc.
And presumably act on fixing that accordingly.

Another pearler of an article Jim!

Cheers!
- Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think my brain is about to explode. :-)<br />
Talk about shoving me well and truly outside my comfort zone!</p>
<p>What I find most&#8230; fascinating is the honest and hence *hard*, appraisal that &#8220;you&#8221; were somehow failing the customer. Bad products, misleading copy etc.<br />
And presumably act on fixing that accordingly.</p>
<p>Another pearler of an article Jim!</p>
<p>Cheers!<br />
- Steve</p>
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