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	<title>Comments on: Marketing Attribution Models</title>
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	<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/</link>
	<description>Moving from a Low Accountability to a High Accountability Business Model</description>
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		<title>By: Data parser</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/comment-page-1/#comment-104544</link>
		<dc:creator>Data parser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 10:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/#comment-104544</guid>
		<description>Hi Mr. Jim Novo, i like the discussions here; so thought i will provide 2.1(!) cents view.

Regarding &quot;accuracy or precision&quot; - the wikipedia article makes a big issue of lot of terminologies; accuracy is simply % of accurately classified obs (the tabulation they give is for binary classifiction).  So total predicted in the diagonal of the &quot;confusion matrix&quot; / total sample.

The question of trade off between accuracy and precision is legendry; however the graphical example seems to give the impression all problems are continuous targets; if it is a question of classification, where the decision is whether one hit the target or not, then the graphics does not do justice to the problem.

I like to kindle thoughts; this is not a retort!  Great group...keep going.

I have some comments on attribution analysis; comes later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mr. Jim Novo, i like the discussions here; so thought i will provide 2.1(!) cents view.</p>
<p>Regarding &#8220;accuracy or precision&#8221; &#8211; the wikipedia article makes a big issue of lot of terminologies; accuracy is simply % of accurately classified obs (the tabulation they give is for binary classifiction).  So total predicted in the diagonal of the &#8220;confusion matrix&#8221; / total sample.</p>
<p>The question of trade off between accuracy and precision is legendry; however the graphical example seems to give the impression all problems are continuous targets; if it is a question of classification, where the decision is whether one hit the target or not, then the graphics does not do justice to the problem.</p>
<p>I like to kindle thoughts; this is not a retort!  Great group&#8230;keep going.</p>
<p>I have some comments on attribution analysis; comes later.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/comment-page-1/#comment-92132</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/#comment-92132</guid>
		<description>DSTM, have to agree. One way to get at some level of mix modeling without needing a whole lot of tools / experience is simply to kill all the media except one, optimize that, then add the next, optimize that mix, etc.  Typically I would want to start at the &quot;bottom&quot; of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.jimnovo.com/tag/aidas/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;AIDAS&lt;/a&gt; funnel, where folks are closest to Action, then add higher levels all the way up to Awareness.  Online, this probably means you start with Search, then add BT Overlay, then add straight Display, then add Offline, looking for incremental performance with each additional layer.  This is essentially what I call the &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.jimnovo.com/marketing-bands-series/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Marketing Bands Model&lt;/a&gt;.

Often I hear people say this can&#039;t be done because of media silos etc. but there must be *someone* in charge of all Marketing efforts who can make this happen.  Just takes some substantial guts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DSTM, have to agree. One way to get at some level of mix modeling without needing a whole lot of tools / experience is simply to kill all the media except one, optimize that, then add the next, optimize that mix, etc.  Typically I would want to start at the &#8220;bottom&#8221; of the <a href="http://blog.jimnovo.com/tag/aidas/" rel="nofollow">AIDAS</a> funnel, where folks are closest to Action, then add higher levels all the way up to Awareness.  Online, this probably means you start with Search, then add BT Overlay, then add straight Display, then add Offline, looking for incremental performance with each additional layer.  This is essentially what I call the <a href="http://blog.jimnovo.com/marketing-bands-series/" rel="nofollow">Marketing Bands Model</a>.</p>
<p>Often I hear people say this can&#8217;t be done because of media silos etc. but there must be *someone* in charge of all Marketing efforts who can make this happen.  Just takes some substantial guts.</p>
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		<title>By: Don't Shoot The Messenger</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/comment-page-1/#comment-92097</link>
		<dc:creator>Don't Shoot The Messenger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 01:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/#comment-92097</guid>
		<description>Great comments to original post on an old problem which has recently arisen from the internet display camp.

Same old problem, not of measurement vs practicality: Turf protection and the budget $$$ associated with silo&#039;d channels.  Multi-channel campaign measurement &amp; allocation has traditionally been a touchy issue in any environment (advertiser or vendor space) where competing spend tactics all desire to lay claim to the revenue recognition.  So, instead of a realistic value proposition to attempt to accurately associate comparative value, it usually results in a zero sum game to trump the other guy&#039;s revenue momentum.

Yesterday, it was TV &amp; direct mail.  Now it&#039;s display &amp; paid search.  Same arguments in both cases.

The real business question you adeptly imply in your post, &quot;why spend limited capital &amp; scarce resources attempting to optimize an illusive &amp; deceptively futile measurement problem?&quot;

Doesn&#039;t it make far better practical sense, to put that same level of energy into simply improving each of those separate silos to their maximum potential - especially for large branded advertisers who have fragmented channel responsibility themselves?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comments to original post on an old problem which has recently arisen from the internet display camp.</p>
<p>Same old problem, not of measurement vs practicality: Turf protection and the budget $$$ associated with silo&#8217;d channels.  Multi-channel campaign measurement &amp; allocation has traditionally been a touchy issue in any environment (advertiser or vendor space) where competing spend tactics all desire to lay claim to the revenue recognition.  So, instead of a realistic value proposition to attempt to accurately associate comparative value, it usually results in a zero sum game to trump the other guy&#8217;s revenue momentum.</p>
<p>Yesterday, it was TV &amp; direct mail.  Now it&#8217;s display &amp; paid search.  Same arguments in both cases.</p>
<p>The real business question you adeptly imply in your post, &#8220;why spend limited capital &amp; scarce resources attempting to optimize an illusive &amp; deceptively futile measurement problem?&#8221;</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t it make far better practical sense, to put that same level of energy into simply improving each of those separate silos to their maximum potential &#8211; especially for large branded advertisers who have fragmented channel responsibility themselves?</p>
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		<title>By: Travis</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/comment-page-1/#comment-85555</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/#comment-85555</guid>
		<description>Comment on Allocation vs attribution.
&quot;I’m pretty sure “allocation” and “attribution” are really different concepts, though they seem to be used interchangeably right now.  Let’s just say from reading the article allocation sounds more like a gut feel thing and attribution, from my experience, implies the use of a mathematical model of some kind. &quot;

From my experience in the industry for the last 11yrs Allocation is the Model and attribution is the real-time application credit of the action to the session or series of events during a period time defined by the allocation model.

I apply a global allocation model to my system and attribute the credit value as it happens to the event. Allocaiton Most recent /Expires 30 days/Attribute credit to the event within my 30 day period

Just my two cents -- but the assumption is correct in that not many people get this and not many use the terms correctly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment on Allocation vs attribution.<br />
&#8220;I’m pretty sure “allocation” and “attribution” are really different concepts, though they seem to be used interchangeably right now.  Let’s just say from reading the article allocation sounds more like a gut feel thing and attribution, from my experience, implies the use of a mathematical model of some kind. &#8221;</p>
<p>From my experience in the industry for the last 11yrs Allocation is the Model and attribution is the real-time application credit of the action to the session or series of events during a period time defined by the allocation model.</p>
<p>I apply a global allocation model to my system and attribute the credit value as it happens to the event. Allocaiton Most recent /Expires 30 days/Attribute credit to the event within my 30 day period</p>
<p>Just my two cents &#8212; but the assumption is correct in that not many people get this and not many use the terms correctly.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/comment-page-1/#comment-75407</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/#comment-75407</guid>
		<description>I still think allocation is a sucker&#039;s bet - you are allowing people to choose winners rather than the math.  The result is &quot;justification&quot;, as opposed to analysis, and while some might say this result is better than nothing, I&#039;m not sure the kinds of distortions that can occur make this a true statement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still think allocation is a sucker&#8217;s bet &#8211; you are allowing people to choose winners rather than the math.  The result is &#8220;justification&#8221;, as opposed to analysis, and while some might say this result is better than nothing, I&#8217;m not sure the kinds of distortions that can occur make this a true statement.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Buxton</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/comment-page-1/#comment-75338</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Buxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/#comment-75338</guid>
		<description>Hi Jim, Brilliant post - and lovely to hear common sense applied to the subject. 

It seems to me that so many people are asking how we should model attribution effectively, few - other than your good self - are asking whether we should try. 

As you so rightly say, just because a particular ad shows up in a user&#039;s path to conversion, that doesn&#039;t mean that ad had a positive effect, negative effect or no effect whatsoever - particularly given the cookie-flooding practices so common and the general issue of, for example, banner blindness. 

However, with all that said, your last comment - about the ability to follow just one user&#039;s path to conversion - points us to what makes online tracking technologies (like our own brilliant TagMan) so interesting. Online we do not need to plan against a defined (and fictitious) &#039;audience&#039; - we can take an individual conversion and work backwards. Do this enough times and common sense tells us what&#039;s happening. 

Then we can test our theories and THEN we can make decisions of allocation and - if you so choose - attribution, though in my view allocation is just the ultimate form of attribution since, if I don&#039;t allocate you any spend, you stand no chance of being attributed with any sales. 

Like I say, great post.

Best, 

Philip Buxton 
Marketing director 
TagMan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jim, Brilliant post &#8211; and lovely to hear common sense applied to the subject. </p>
<p>It seems to me that so many people are asking how we should model attribution effectively, few &#8211; other than your good self &#8211; are asking whether we should try. </p>
<p>As you so rightly say, just because a particular ad shows up in a user&#8217;s path to conversion, that doesn&#8217;t mean that ad had a positive effect, negative effect or no effect whatsoever &#8211; particularly given the cookie-flooding practices so common and the general issue of, for example, banner blindness. </p>
<p>However, with all that said, your last comment &#8211; about the ability to follow just one user&#8217;s path to conversion &#8211; points us to what makes online tracking technologies (like our own brilliant TagMan) so interesting. Online we do not need to plan against a defined (and fictitious) &#8216;audience&#8217; &#8211; we can take an individual conversion and work backwards. Do this enough times and common sense tells us what&#8217;s happening. </p>
<p>Then we can test our theories and THEN we can make decisions of allocation and &#8211; if you so choose &#8211; attribution, though in my view allocation is just the ultimate form of attribution since, if I don&#8217;t allocate you any spend, you stand no chance of being attributed with any sales. </p>
<p>Like I say, great post.</p>
<p>Best, </p>
<p>Philip Buxton<br />
Marketing director<br />
TagMan</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Novo</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/comment-page-1/#comment-25942</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Novo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 23:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/#comment-25942</guid>
		<description>Perhaps the CPG folks are so into it because that&#039;s all they can really do?

When you have actual customer behavior data, and are acting on individuals and not &quot;the masses&quot;, the need for mix modeling is substantially reduced, IMHO.  Goes hand in hand with whether you are a big spender on untrackable media.  If so, then have at it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the CPG folks are so into it because that&#8217;s all they can really do?</p>
<p>When you have actual customer behavior data, and are acting on individuals and not &#8220;the masses&#8221;, the need for mix modeling is substantially reduced, IMHO.  Goes hand in hand with whether you are a big spender on untrackable media.  If so, then have at it!</p>
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		<title>By: mjwolfe</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/comment-page-1/#comment-25761</link>
		<dc:creator>mjwolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/#comment-25761</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that most of the discussion on this blog is focused on &quot;silos&quot;...web analytics, sales force automation, crm analytics, etc, whichi s all good.....but only marketing mix modeling addresses the &quot;whole MROI enchillada&quot;.   Sure, there are some limits to how many variables you can put in a model, but you would be surprised how detailed it can be.   
It can address offline marketing, online marketing, direct marketing, promotions, etc, all in one swhoop.  These silo tools are great for drilling down into the detail that mix modeling doesn&#039;t do, but none of these tools address the whole marketing investment enchillada.

The problem with mix modeling now is that most of it is in CPG, but many other businesses can&#039;t do it, and don&#039;t get it.  When they do, look out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that most of the discussion on this blog is focused on &#8220;silos&#8221;&#8230;web analytics, sales force automation, crm analytics, etc, whichi s all good&#8230;..but only marketing mix modeling addresses the &#8220;whole MROI enchillada&#8221;.   Sure, there are some limits to how many variables you can put in a model, but you would be surprised how detailed it can be.<br />
It can address offline marketing, online marketing, direct marketing, promotions, etc, all in one swhoop.  These silo tools are great for drilling down into the detail that mix modeling doesn&#8217;t do, but none of these tools address the whole marketing investment enchillada.</p>
<p>The problem with mix modeling now is that most of it is in CPG, but many other businesses can&#8217;t do it, and don&#8217;t get it.  When they do, look out!</p>
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		<title>By: Marketing Mix Modeling - Analytical approach to identify right marketing channel</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/comment-page-1/#comment-25453</link>
		<dc:creator>Marketing Mix Modeling - Analytical approach to identify right marketing channel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 08:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/#comment-25453</guid>
		<description>Marketing Mix Modeling involves breaking up of sales volume into various components, and analyzing spend on each of them to calculate ROI from each of these components. With so many marketing channels in hand, particularly on web, it becomes too complex to analyze each channel. On web, one can extract massive amount of unstructured data, but then to extract meaningful information, you need to deploy analytical data models. Using predictive analytics, analysts can forecast sales through each of these channels and optimize the marketing spends to gain maximum value. 

In the last 10 years many Fortune 500 companies such as P&amp;G, Kraft, Coca-Cola and Pepsi have made Marketing Mix Modeling an integral part of their marketing planning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marketing Mix Modeling involves breaking up of sales volume into various components, and analyzing spend on each of them to calculate ROI from each of these components. With so many marketing channels in hand, particularly on web, it becomes too complex to analyze each channel. On web, one can extract massive amount of unstructured data, but then to extract meaningful information, you need to deploy analytical data models. Using predictive analytics, analysts can forecast sales through each of these channels and optimize the marketing spends to gain maximum value. </p>
<p>In the last 10 years many Fortune 500 companies such as P&amp;G, Kraft, Coca-Cola and Pepsi have made Marketing Mix Modeling an integral part of their marketing planning.</p>
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		<title>By: Are PPC Reports Inaccurate? Let&#8217;s Count the Ways (Friday Quiz Winner)</title>
		<link>http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/comment-page-1/#comment-16698</link>
		<dc:creator>Are PPC Reports Inaccurate? Let&#8217;s Count the Ways (Friday Quiz Winner)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jimnovo.com/2007/08/28/marketing-attribution-models/#comment-16698</guid>
		<description>[...] Attribution is another systemic issue – people visit multiple times via multiple sources and at some point you (or your reporting software) has to decide which visit source gets the revenue credit for an eventual sale, if cookies or offline didn’t make it impossible to track in the first place! (Some very thoughtful posts here, here, and here.) The industry default is ‘last click’ but some analytics packages (such as SiteCatalyst and Coremetrics) provide control over that. (related post here) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Attribution is another systemic issue – people visit multiple times via multiple sources and at some point you (or your reporting software) has to decide which visit source gets the revenue credit for an eventual sale, if cookies or offline didn’t make it impossible to track in the first place! (Some very thoughtful posts here, here, and here.) The industry default is ‘last click’ but some analytics packages (such as SiteCatalyst and Coremetrics) provide control over that. (related post here) [...]</p>
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